Solution to rear toe adjuster ears?

[Spence]

Hi guys, probably the most annoying thing about this car and nearly any new honda, is the rear toe adjuster design. They have this crappy designed retention system with these little sheet metal ears that the cam rides on, mine are bending already, I was trying to weld the little flimsy ears to the subframe so they can't bend, but I ended up partly melting one of them, cause I think I had the welder set too strong.

My ultimate solution would be to get whiteline rear toe and camber arms, and for the toe arms, get a grade 10 bolt and two steel bushings, knock off the old spot welded crap adjuster ears, and weld the steel bushings permanently to the rear sub frame, then put the nut and bolt in.

Anybody have any other ideas?

Thanks
-Spence

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[plresultsman]

Hi guys, probably the most annoying thing about this car and nearly any new honda, is the rear toe adjuster design. They have this crappy designed retention system with these little sheet metal ears that the cam rides on, mine are bending already, I was trying to weld the little flimsy ears to the subframe so they can't bend, but I ended up partly melting one of them, cause I think I had the welder set too strong.

My ultimate solution would be to get whiteline rear toe and camber arms, and for the toe arms, get a grade 10 bolt and two steel bushings, knock off the old spot welded crap adjuster ears, and weld the steel bushings permanently to the rear sub frame, then put the nut and bolt in.

Anybody have any other ideas?

Thanks
-Spence

Following

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

I've debated doing a lockout similar to our front strut locks which would basically fill the unused area of the slotted hole and hold the bolt in a fixed location where it can't shift, but you would have to have both adjustable camber and toe arms.

We also make adjustable toe arms LINK

 

[Spence]

I've debated doing a lockout similar to our front strut locks which would basically fill the unused area of the slotted hole and hold the bolt in a fixed location where it can't shift, but you would have to have both adjustable camber and toe arms.

We also make adjustable toe arms LINK

Thats nice, I'm just curious if with the toe arms there are lockout washers that stop the slots where the cams would be from sliding?

and have the adjustable toe arms take place of the job of the cam bolts which I would delete. Its just tricky to decide if you want it to be welded center so you have a range of adjustment in both directions or what.

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Thats nice, I'm just curious if with the toe arms there are lockout washers that stop the slots where the cams would be from sliding?

and have the adjustable toe arms take place of the job of the cam bolts which I would delete. Its just tricky to decide if you want it to be welded center so you have a range of adjustment in both directions or what.

Yes, if the slot is filled the cam can no longer rotate and those thin ears are no longer needed.

The adjustable toe arm replaces the eccentric adjuster for adjusting toe. The factory eccentric can be used for either toe or camber if you have either an adjustable toe or camber arm, if you delete the factory eccentric you need both adjustable arms, hope that makes sense. For example on our shop FK7 we just have our adjustable toe arms and I use the factory eccentric to adjust camber. When I put on some adjustable camber arms I've had sitting around I'll delete the factory eccentric since I don't need 3 points of adjustment for 2 alignment settings. If the car still had stock toe arms and an adjustable camber arm I could use the factory eccentric as a toe adjuster.

If you delete the factory eccentric the location of where you affix the bolt location will change track width. So for example if we made a lockout like our front strut locks where it holds the bolt at either max or min location (depending on what direction it's installed in the slot) it would change the rear track width. Putting it all the way inboard would decrease track width and give a bit more tire clearance in the rear to fit a larger tire (not really needed) and putting it all of the way outboard would increase track width and reduce weight transfer at the rear axle, which would provide a small increase in grip at the rear (may or may not be needed). Having a lockout that allows you to choose and change the location of that inboard bolt gives you one more adjustment for dialing your suspension in.

 

[Spence]

Yes, if the slot is filled the cam can no longer rotate and those thin ears are no longer needed.

The adjustable toe arm replaces the eccentric adjuster for adjusting toe. The factory eccentric can be used for either toe or camber if you have either an adjustable toe or camber arm, if you delete the factory eccentric you need both adjustable arms, hope that makes sense. For example on our shop FK7 we just have our adjustable toe arms and I use the factory eccentric to adjust camber. When I put on some adjustable camber arms I've had sitting around I'll delete the factory eccentric since I don't need 3 points of adjustment for 2 alignment settings. If the car still had stock toe arms and an adjustable camber arm I could use the factory eccentric as a toe adjuster.

If you delete the factory eccentric the location of where you affix the bolt location will change track width. So for example if we made a lockout like our front strut locks where it holds the bolt at either max or min location (depending on what direction it's installed in the slot) it would change the rear track width. Putting it all the way inboard would decrease track width and give a bit more tire clearance in the rear to fit a larger tire (not really needed) and putting it all of the way outboard would increase track width and reduce weight transfer at the rear axle, which would provide a small increase in grip at the rear (may or may not be needed). Having a lockout that allows you to choose and change the location of that inboard bolt gives you one more adjustment for dialing your suspension in.

Thanks for your help, I'm curious if those lockouts would possibly work on the rear toe cams though? If those fit, it would help me to avoid welding those washers to the rear subframe when I get the toe arms.

later when I get coil overs I was thinking of getting rear camber arms and toe arms.

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Thanks for your help, I'm curious if those lockouts would possibly work on the rear toe cams though? If those fit, it would help me to avoid welding those washers to the rear subframe when I get the toe arms.

later when I get coil overs I was thinking of getting rear camber arms and toe arms.

The existing lockouts we sell for the front struts only fit there. They do not fit in factory eccentric adjuster for the rear lower arm, the slot sizes are different dimensions.

 

[Spence]

The existing lockouts we sell for the front struts only fit there. They do not fit in factory eccentric adjuster for the rear lower arm, the slot sizes are different dimensions.

Well, I guess whats interesting is I watched your install instructions, it looks like the toe arm adjusts the toe in an alternate fashion, the toe is usually adjusted from the rear lower control arm, but the toe arms go where the front fixed arm goes in the rear.

So ideally I'd find the neutral zone with the cams, likely weld them, then install the rear toe and camber arms.

 

[Spence]

The existing lockouts we sell for the front struts only fit there. They do not fit in factory eccentric adjuster for the rear lower arm, the slot sizes are different dimensions.

file:///C:/Users/spenc/Downloads/toeee.webp I can't seem to post it, but thats a pic from your install, I guess I understand now, cause I thought it was the rear arm where the struts go

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Well, I guess whats interesting is I watched your install instructions, it looks like the toe arm adjusts the toe in an alternate fashion, the toe is usually adjusted from the rear lower control arm, but the toe arms go where the front fixed arm goes in the rear.

So ideally I'd find the neutral zone with the cams, likely weld them, then install the rear toe and camber arms.

Toe is typically adjusted by a linkage that is not inline with the axle, hence why that forward linkage is used for adjusting toe in the rear suspension when moving to an aftermarket adjustable arm. The factory eccentric on the lower arm is referred to as a toe adjuster by Honda but in reality it changes toe and camber because of how close it is to being parallel with the axle centerline. The factory eccentric on the lower arm is made for getting toe in spec and as long as none of the suspension arms are bent, camber should always relatively in spec too, but if you have the ability to adjust toe via a separate arm, you can use the factory eccentric as a camber adjustment instead. This is how we have gotten -2.8° of camber in the rear of our FK7 (using our adjustable toe arms to dial in toe, and the factory eccentric to dial in camber).

If you have both adjustable camber and toe arms the factory eccentric becomes redundant and is no longer needed. The location of where you weld the bolt will only influence the track width.

 

[Spence]

Toe is typically adjusted by a linkage that is not inline with the axle, hence why that forward linkage is used for adjusting toe in the rear suspension when moving to an aftermarket adjustable arm. The factory eccentric on the lower arm is referred to as a toe adjuster by Honda but in reality it changes toe and camber because of how close it is to being parallel with the axle centerline. The factory eccentric on the lower arm is made for getting toe in spec and as long as none of the suspension arms are bent, camber should always relatively in spec too, but if you have the ability to adjust toe via a separate arm, you can use the factory eccentric as a camber adjustment instead. This is how we have gotten -2.8° of camber in the rear of our FK7 (using our adjustable toe arms to dial in toe, and the factory eccentric to dial in camber).

If you have both adjustable camber and toe arms the factory eccentric becomes redundant and is no longer needed. The location of where you weld the bolt will only influence the track width.

Thanks for all your help and knowledge. If I decide to get a set I will keep your web store in mind.

 

[Ghosted]

I have an adjustable toe arm and don’t know what length to set it at. I have swift springs and stock camber arms? Any help? @Austin@Wunderladen Racing

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

I have an adjustable toe arm and don’t know what length to set it at. I have swift springs and stock camber arms? Any help? @Austin@Wunderladen Racing

Your best bet is to match the length of the stock toe arm when you install them and that should get the car drivable enough to get to an alignment rack to get toe set where you want it.

 

[arpypat]

This thread got bumped right when I found out I need adjustable toe arms lol

Firestone said they maxed out the factory eccentric and it was just spinning and not moving. They didn't touch my adjustable rear camber arms, though.. Rear toe on one side was about 0.22 deg vs the 0.04-0.16 deg range.

 

[Ghosted]

Your best bet is to match the length of the stock toe arm when you install them and that should get the car drivable enough to get to an alignment rack to get toe set where you want it.

What’s a good toe setting for street daily and some mountain runs?

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