Front ball joint mod

[Macross]

Yep they do, they're not even very stiff, you can put them on by hand.


After fooling around with this for days I can say that it's not that bad if all your doing is either of the lower ball joints. You have to remove the caliper, rotor, and rotor dust shield screws. Then rotate the rotor shield 90 degrees. Its easiest if you remove all of the bolts for both ball joint and lower knuckle bracket. Two bolts for the large upper lower ball joint, one torx bolt holding it to the lower ball joint braket, two bolts holding the lower ball joint bracket to the inner knuckle, one 17mm long, one 14mm short, and finally the castle nut for the lower ball joint to the lower control arm. You have to use a ball joint seperator tool on the lower arm. Advance auto parts sells one for 26 dollars. After the bolts are removed and the ball joint separated, you should be able to pull down on the lower control arm and use a screw driver to lever out the whole assembly with both ball joints. It is possible to remove just the upper lower large ball joint by itself. You still have to loosen everything except the castle nut on the lower ball joint.

Reassembly is tricky. There is an order to it. I would put just the lower ball joint and bracket in first getting the lower ball joint through the lower control arm and placing the castle nut to hold it in place. Then align the lower bracket with the inner knuckle but don't worry about the bolts just yet. Then lift maneuver the assembly to get the upper lower ball joint into place. At this point everything is there except the 5 bolts that hold everything. Start with the short 14mm bolt on the lower ball joint bracket. You have to align and put that one in first. After that putting the long 17 mm bolt in is relatively easy. After that putting the two 19mm bolts into the upper lower ball joint is very easy, there is no tension. Finally place and tighten the torx bolt holding the upper lower ball joint to the lower ball joint bracket.


Fyi for some reason honda states that the 19mm bolts on the upper lower ball joint should never be removed and that if they are the entire outter knuckle should be replaced. Keep in mind this is the ball joint that the hard race joint replaces. I don't see any differences in the aluminium or bolts that would make honda say this, they reinstalled just fine. Along the same lines, honda basically states that every bolt in the suspension system of the car is one time use and to "replace with new bolt" I think this is a convenient money grab technique that takes advantage of routine maintenance minded honda owners that will add another 100 with of bolts to their carts. It's also worth mentioning that honda has huge parts delays and I wonder how long it would take if someone actually ordered all of these specified "one time use" parts.

Also forgot to mention, when I specify the order of installation, I mean install the bolts in that order loosely, once all of them are installed, then tighten them all down.

Sponsored

 

[bacsidoan]

Yep they do, they're not even very stiff, you can put them on by hand.


After fooling around with this for days I can say that it's not that bad if all your doing is either of the lower ball joints. You have to remove the caliper, rotor, and rotor dust shield screws. Then rotate the rotor shield 90 degrees. Its easiest if you remove all of the bolts for both ball joint and lower knuckle bracket. Two bolts for the large upper lower ball joint, one torx bolt holding it to the lower ball joint braket, two bolts holding the lower ball joint bracket to the inner knuckle, one 17mm long, one 14mm short, and finally the castle nut for the lower ball joint to the lower control arm. You have to use a ball joint seperator tool on the lower arm. Advance auto parts sells one for 26 dollars. After the bolts are removed and the ball joint separated, you should be able to pull down on the lower control arm and use a screw driver to lever out the whole assembly with both ball joints. It is possible to remove just the upper lower large ball joint by itself. You still have to loosen everything except the castle nut on the lower ball joint.

Reassembly is tricky. There is an order to it. I would put just the lower ball joint and bracket in first getting the lower ball joint through the lower control arm and placing the castle nut to hold it in place. Then align the lower bracket with the inner knuckle but don't worry about the bolts just yet. Then lift maneuver the assembly to get the upper lower ball joint into place. At this point everything is there except the 5 bolts that hold everything. Start with the short 14mm bolt on the lower ball joint bracket. You have to align and put that one in first. After that putting the long 17 mm bolt in is relatively easy. After that putting the two 19mm bolts into the upper lower ball joint is very easy, there is no tension. Finally place and tighten the torx bolt holding the upper lower ball joint to the lower ball joint bracket.


Fyi for some reason honda states that the 19mm bolts on the upper lower ball joint should never be removed and that if they are the entire outter knuckle should be replaced. Keep in mind this is the ball joint that the hard race joint replaces. I don't see any differences in the aluminium or bolts that would make honda say this, they reinstalled just fine. Along the same lines, honda basically states that every bolt in the suspension system of the car is one time use and to "replace with new bolt" I think this is a convenient money grab technique that takes advantage of routine maintenance minded honda owners that will add another 100 with of bolts to their carts. It's also worth mentioning that honda has huge parts delays and I wonder how long it would take if someone actually ordered all of these specified "one time use" parts.

Did you install the ball joints with SW388 wheels? Are they compatible with other after market wheels with offset > +40 ?

 

[GenXHendrixx]

Yep they do, they're not even very stiff, you can put them on by hand.


After fooling around with this for days I can say that it's not that bad if all your doing is either of the lower ball joints. You have to remove the caliper, rotor, and rotor dust shield screws. Then rotate the rotor shield 90 degrees. Its easiest if you remove all of the bolts for both ball joint and lower knuckle bracket. Two bolts for the large upper lower ball joint, one torx bolt holding it to the lower ball joint braket, two bolts holding the lower ball joint bracket to the inner knuckle, one 17mm long, one 14mm short, and finally the castle nut for the lower ball joint to the lower control arm. You have to use a ball joint seperator tool on the lower arm. Advance auto parts sells one for 26 dollars. After the bolts are removed and the ball joint separated, you should be able to pull down on the lower control arm and use a screw driver to lever out the whole assembly with both ball joints. It is possible to remove just the upper lower large ball joint by itself. You still have to loosen everything except the castle nut on the lower ball joint.

Reassembly is tricky. There is an order to it. I would put just the lower ball joint and bracket in first getting the lower ball joint through the lower control arm and placing the castle nut to hold it in place. Then align the lower bracket with the inner knuckle but don't worry about the bolts just yet. Then lift maneuver the assembly to get the upper lower ball joint into place. At this point everything is there except the 5 bolts that hold everything. Start with the short 14mm bolt on the lower ball joint bracket. You have to align and put that one in first. After that putting the long 17 mm bolt in is relatively easy. After that putting the two 19mm bolts into the upper lower ball joint is very easy, there is no tension. Finally place and tighten the torx bolt holding the upper lower ball joint to the lower ball joint bracket.


Fyi for some reason honda states that the 19mm bolts on the upper lower ball joint should never be removed and that if they are the entire outter knuckle should be replaced. Keep in mind this is the ball joint that the hard race joint replaces. I don't see any differences in the aluminium or bolts that would make honda say this, they reinstalled just fine. Along the same lines, honda basically states that every bolt in the suspension system of the car is one time use and to "replace with new bolt" I think this is a convenient money grab technique that takes advantage of routine maintenance minded honda owners that will add another 100 with of bolts to their carts. It's also worth mentioning that honda has huge parts delays and I wonder how long it would take if someone actually ordered all of these specified "one time use" parts.

Wait so i have what may be a stupid question… it’s technically 3 ball joints on one front wheel? It should be one upper ball joint and 2 on the lower end? And if that’s the case, i ordered whiteline front ball joint and roll centre ball joint. Which one goes where?? and am i technically missing a ball joint from this order as im suspecting there’s 3 ? Sorry for the banter.

 

[keller]

Wait so i have what may be a stupid question… it’s technically 3 ball joints on one front wheel? It should be one upper ball joint and 2 on the lower end? And if that’s the case, i ordered whiteline front ball joint and roll centre ball joint. Which one goes where?? and am i technically missing a ball joint from this order as im suspecting there’s 3 ? Sorry for the banter.

Here's a drawing of our front suspension.

The upper ball joint is in blue. You don't replace that.
What we call the "lower ball joint" (whiteline in your case) is in red.
The roll center correction ball joint is in green.

And technically we have another 5 ball joints in there hahaha.

Here's a pic that shows both my lower ball joints. Top one (cracked dust boot, you can read whiteline up there) is the "lower ball joint" (red in the drawing). The other dust boot below is the green ball joint in the drawing.

 

[GenXHendrixx]

Here's a drawing of our front suspension.

The upper ball joint is in blue. You don't replace that.
What we call the "lower ball joint" (whiteline in your case) is in red.
The roll center correction ball joint is in green.

And technically we have another 5 ball joints in there hahaha.

Here's a pic that shows both my lower ball joints. Top one (cracked dust boot, you can read whiteline up there) is the "lower ball joint" (red in the drawing). The other dust boot below is the green ball joint in the drawing.

Dude, i could fuckin kiss you. Jokes aside, This is such a tremendous help. Thank you so much for all of this. The ball joint at the top in blue that you mentioned, is that not changeable? I only ask as I’m coming up on 70k miles and I’m looking to do some preventative maintenance. (Change out my ball joints and bad bushings)

 

[keller]

Dude, i could fuckin kiss you. Jokes aside, This is such a tremendous help. Thank you so much for all of this. The ball joint at the top in blue that you mentioned, is that not changeable? I only ask as I’m coming up on 70k miles and I’m looking to do some preventative maintenance. (Change out my ball joints and bad bushings)

Well you could test that ball joint for free play to decide whether to replace it or not. Honda says that both the FK8 upper and lower ball joints are non replaceable. They come pre-assembled in larger suspension parts should you have to replace them. And this is the reason why no one ever knew the torque specs for the lower ball joint bolts - those bolts supposedly should never be loosened.

Upper ball joint comes in here: https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~fork~r~fr~shock~absorber~51270-tgh-a01.html
Lower ball joint comes in here: https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~knuckle~comp~fr~r~51210-tgh-a51.html

(These parts are different left and right)

Then Honda changed their mind for the FL5. They now say those ball joints are replaceable and we now have torque specs for those bolts. It probably means they sell the ball joints on their own, no need for replacing the entire damper fork and knuckle if you ask for the corresponding FL5 parts.
And those should be the same as ours, by the way.

 

[GenXHendrixx]

Well you could test that ball joint for free play to decide whether to replace it or not. Honda says that both the FK8 upper and lower ball joints are non replaceable. They come pre-assembled in larger suspension parts should you have to replace them. And this is the reason why no one ever knew the torque specs for the lower ball joint bolts - those bolts supposedly should never be loosened.

Upper ball joint comes in here: https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~fork~r~fr~shock~absorber~51270-tgh-a01.html
Lower ball joint comes in here: https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~knuckle~comp~fr~r~51210-tgh-a51.html

(These parts are different left and right)

Then Honda changed their mind for the FL5. They now say those ball joints are replaceable and we now have torque specs for those bolts. It probably means they sell the ball joints on their own, no need for replacing the entire damper fork and knuckle if you ask for the corresponding FL5 parts.
And those should be the same as ours, by the way.

This makes so much sense. Thank you again for all the info.
Last question, would you happen to have the torque specs for them? Also, i looked on the honda parts now website, seems like they dont have the fl5 suspension parts on there. I guess im better off just calling the dealer?

 

[keller]

This makes so much sense. Thank you again for all the info.
Last question, would you happen to have the torque specs for them? Also, i looked on the honda parts now website, seems like they dont have the fl5 suspension parts on there. I guess im better off just calling the dealer?

You can find all torque specs on that other thread.

Yeah, I can't easily find FL5 parts online either. You need to call or, better yet, visit a dealer. They have those exploded view part diagrams that make it easy to find the parts you are looking for.

It probably means they sell the ball joints on their own

I said probably because you might find out this is not the case. I couldn't verify this info online. Please report back when you get an answer!

 

[GenXHendrixx]

You can find all torque specs on that other thread.

Yeah, I can't easily find FL5 parts online either. You need to call or, better yet, visit a dealer. They have those exploded view part diagrams that make it easy to find the parts you are looking for.



I said probably because you might find out this is not the case. I couldn't verify this info online. Please report back when you get an answer!

Ok cool, im going to call the dealer shortly and see whats up with getting my hands on one. Ill report back.

 

[GenXHendrixx]

You can find all torque specs on that other thread.

Yeah, I can't easily find FL5 parts online either. You need to call or, better yet, visit a dealer. They have those exploded view part diagrams that make it easy to find the parts you are looking for.



I said probably because you might find out this is not the case. I couldn't verify this info online. Please report back when you get an answer!

@keller

update
So i called the dealer near me, I asked the for an FL5 front ball joint coming off the shock absorber… they are claiming its the same as the fk8 and that it is sold as a whole piece. Smh. Fucking lame.

 

[plresultsman]

Sorry if this isn't on topic - for the FK8, is Hardrace preferred over Whiteline for this mod? I know someone mentioned that to me yesterday but now I can't find the thread/comment. That fellow said the Hardrace ball joint replacement parts are more stout and durable than Whiteline, in part based on superior design. If not Hardrace, what is the best supplier for the ball joint mod to achieve increased camber?

 

[keller]

Sorry if this isn't on topic - for the FK8, is Hardrace preferred over Whiteline for this mod? I know someone mentioned that to me yesterday but now I can't find the thread/comment. That fellow said the Hardrace ball joint replacement parts are more stout and durable than Whiteline, in part based on superior design. If not Hardrace, what is the best supplier for the ball joint mod to achieve increased camber?

Yeah, that was me in the other thread.

Below is a pic of my whiteline lower ball joint with cracked dust boots. It's been on the car for ~10 months. I can't say it would have been different with another manufacturer, but this shouldn't be happening. Once the dust boot is gone, the grease will leak and the ball joint will fail prematurely.

Last year I had a long discussion with tezzasaurusrex about these different designs. I found out that hardrace used to have the pins design (just like whiteline), but later decided against it and changed to the current design.

 

[GenXHendrixx]

Yeah, that was me in the other thread.

Below is a pic of my whiteline lower ball joint with cracked dust boots. It's been on the car for ~10 months. I can't say it would have been different with another manufacturer, but this shouldn't be happening. Once the dust boot is gone, the grease will leak and the ball joint will fail prematurely.

Last year I had a long discussion with tezzasaurusrex about these different designs. I found out that hardrace used to have the pins design (just like whiteline), but later decided against it and changed to the current design.

damn wish i knew this before i went ahead and ordered whitelines ball joint .

will you be asking whiteline to warranty it?

 

[keller]

damn wish i knew this before i went ahead and ordered whitelines ball joint .

will you be asking whiteline to warranty it?

I just wrote them asking for a repair kit. I hope they have one to order =)

 

[plresultsman]

Yeah, that was me in the other thread.

Below is a pic of my whiteline lower ball joint with cracked dust boots. It's been on the car for ~10 months. I can't say it would have been different with another manufacturer, but this shouldn't be happening. Once the dust boot is gone, the grease will leak and the ball joint will fail prematurely.

Last year I had a long discussion with tezzasaurusrex about these different designs. I found out that hardrace used to have the pins design (just like whiteline), but later decided against it and changed to the current design.

So should I order the Hardrace - or is there a superior brand/product. I cancelled my Whiteline order.