RL caliper swap

[86salmon]

I've had RL calipers for over a year now and wanted to share some experiences and thoughts plus other general information

First off this is the initial thread I learned about this retro fit. It's got a breakdown of a lot of brake caliper and rotor info for this platform and potential retrofits

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/brake-info-thread.62520/

This is an RL retrofit thread I referenced as well

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/oem-bbk-acura-rl-4-piston-brake-calipers.43055/

It's filled with great info also, but hasn't been updated in a while and gets a little muddied up with other retro fit talk

For an RL swap, you'll need a set of right and left calipers, a set of rotors for a Brembo equipped 350z, and an adapter kit.


Calipers can be sourced many ways. I've known people who've found them in junkyards and pick and pulls for under $100. I got mine off eBay for $120. They can also be found rebuilt on various auto parts websites.

When getting junkyard or eBay calipers, the condition is an unknown so a cleanup and rebuild may be necessary. I used a drill with a Ryobi brush attachment and brake dust remover for the initial cleaning.

After that came scrubbing with brass brush drill attachments followed by a once over with Mother's mag and wheel polish and some buffer pads

After cleaning, I decided to disassemble the calipers and do a rebuild just to be sure my boots and clips were in good shape

I used parts from Rock Auto for the refresh


https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...859,brake+&+wheel+hub,caliper+repair+kit,1720

To disassemble, you're going to need a t50 star/torx bit

For rebuilding tips I used these videos as references







This last one is not RL specific, but so satisfying to watch



While my calipers were disassembled I painted the bolts to see if they could be a little protected from corrosion. I ran into a car restore guy who uses manifold paint so I gave it a shot

When first painted, the paint is a gold color. It gets a blue when exposed to to high heat, hence, the torch

Once I got it put together they looked like this

In the next couple posts I'll go over install adventures, rotors, pads, and spirited driving experiences

More to come

 

[86salmon]

Once I got the calipers cleaned up and assembled, I looked for rotors to use.

Centric blanks and parts store basic blanks are popular choices for this retrofit across all models that use it. This is likely due to this being a lower budget oriented four piston caliper solution. It's also possibly due to the nominal thickness of the cheaper rotors

I wish I had noticed that before. We'll get to why

I wanted higher performing rotors with better cooling capacity, and lower weight. I ended up getting 2 piece 350z rotors from Nissan aftermarket company Z1 Motorsports. Their kit was featured on the Nissan Z at SEMA last year so I was drooling at them hard

https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-pr...1-piece-brembo-front-brake-rotors-p-7373.html

They weigh 16.8 pounds each, down from the 20lbs one piece Brembos for the 350z come in at. Factory si rotors weigh in at 17lbs and si calipers are around 14lbs. Compare that to the RL weighing around 9lbs. This setup looks to lose 5lbs at two corners

I was ecstatic and placed my order. What I didn't know was how thick the z1 rotors would end up being


The install was fairly straightforward. There are lots of good videos that go over the fast brakes kit

https://www.twostepperformance.com/products/rsx-with-acura-rl-caliper-adapter-kit

This is one of the better diy videos

First comes removing the factory caliper.

Hang it with some wire or brake hooks

An impact driver made removing the retaining screw on the old rotor a cinch

Ready to mount the adapter

WHOOPS!!

I PUT THE WASHERS IN THE WRONG PLACE HERE

I noticed and fixed this, but forgot to take a new picture

Those Z1 rotors are super sexy
Using lug nuts to hold it in place

Got green loctite so I can remove when needed

50 ft/lbs
Make sure you do NOT over torque these bolts. They WILL pull thread out the adapter. Ask me how I know...

Time for some ceramic street pads, Endless SSM Plus. Good bite and very little dust. They perform as well as Yellow stuff but without the squeak and dust

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/products/endless-ep428-ssm-plus

Also, no US distributors


Annnnd

Done

Next post I'll talk about problems I encountered, how they've performed, and pad options

More to come...

 

[86salmon]

So how did this first install go? Well it was a learning experience.

First off, in my ignorance, I didn't realize bleeder valves face up. It took a bit of time to get the air out but they stopped really well regardless

Here they are with valves correctly oriented

The next part was an error on my part in paying attention to tolerances. Z1 Motorsports 2 piece rotors turned out to be 31mm thick.

While moving and floating, the rotors moved clear, but at low speeds I would be greeted by the occasional ear piercing grinding sound. It made for an embarrassing trip to Tail of the Dragon.

The brakes still worked very well and the grinding was very minimal as it didn't make a noticeable mark in the rotor, only trace spots of visible wear on the caliper where it was making contact and piling

Some obligatory Wake the Dragon pictures

I ended up milling away a mm or so in the hot spots. I've had no issues since with the two piece rotors. I also have a set of Centric blanks that I used as backup and they cleared fine


In the above caliper pic, sharp eyes may have noticed that there's a yellow pad and not the pretty Endless blue

Well... I did a track day on the Endless SSM+ pads and they were fantastic until my fourth session when they got really hot and smeared on my rotors

They lasted most of a fifth session until again, they got too hot and started to go soft. I may have also boiled fluid running Ate type 200 dot 4 fluid. Regardless, as much as I loooooves SSM+, I won't be using them on track again

Another issue I encountered was needing 3mm spacers to run my daily set of wheels. Spirited driving with soft factory lug nut studs and less thread to bite led to thread getting pulled, and lug nuts freezing

I've since swapped to ARP extended studs and they thread smooth like room temp butter

My last trip up to the Dragon I switched to a race oriented brake pad the Endless ME20. It's the brake pad recommended for fwd med to light weight cars and they enabled late braking like I've never experienced

After 4 days of aggressive driving that put a lot of wear on my 200tw tires the pads still have plenty of life for my upcoming HPDE days

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/products/endless-ep428-cc40-me20

Again, Endless does not have US distributors and their pads must be ordered from Japan. Additionally, RL pads are limited in race compounds available in the US

The work around for importing is to look for Honda Legend kb1 and kb2. Blackhawk and RHDjapan.com both carry a wide selection of compounds from Endless, Project Mu, and Dixel

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/search?q=kb1+legend+brake+pads+front&_pos=2&_psq=kb1&_ss=e&_v=1.0

https://www.rhdjapan.com/search/eng...legend/car/honda/category/handling_brake-pads

I've had good luck with Endless and will likely continue to use the ME20 pads for now

So what are other options?

EBC has Red and Yellow available for RL from US dealers

Hawk has HPS and Ceramic available

Plus Stoptech has street and sport pads

https://shop.redline360.com/collections/all/acura-rl-brake-pads


The EBC yellow perform well enough in autocross and in the mountains, but are very very dusty

The Hawk ceramic are also very very dusty, just in a different color

GLOC has pads for RL in all their compounds. It would be a special order, but they've made them in the past. I have heard that once on their compounds you need to use their street pads as well, so that has me hesitant to use them. I have spoken to @Austin@Wunderladen Racing and he is open to sourcing them


https://www.g-locbrakes.com/products/brake-pads/search/


Porterfield has them available in their four main compounds with their street compound coming in at a very attractive price. They also offer Ferrodo and Raybestos race compounds special ordered in rl caliper shape, but at a price that I'm not comfortable with. It's nice to know the option is there

https://porterfield-brakes.com/product/ap1091/

So this is where things are with this brake setup. I'll continue to use them as they suit my needs currently and are fairly cost effective. Another year of HPDE and autox and I'll see if I'm still enjoying them

As for alternatives, if I feel the need to upgrade I'll probably go with the EBC calipers from Wunderladen.

https://www.wunderladenracing.com/products/civic-x-big-brake-kit

I already have nice rotors that have relatively inexpensive ring replacements. Plus they are compatible (should be)


Thanks for reading. Feel free to add comments or questions

 

[Memogiyi]

Thank you for this! I will eventually upgrade my brakes and I am on the fence on what bbk option to go with.

I look forward to reading your experience.

 

[ilipac]

Yeeeee! @86salmon im gonna do a video install of my new ones and I’ll add it to the thread!

 

[86salmon]

Thank you for this! I will eventually upgrade my brakes and I am on the fence on what bbk option to go with.

I look forward to reading your experience.

Thanks! For a daily and occasional track lapping days, these have been a bargain, growing pains and all

Hopefully my mistakes can help others who go this route

 

[86salmon]

Yeeeee! @86salmon im gonna do a video install of my new ones and I’ll add it to the thread!

Can't wait to see you're camera production wizardry at work

 

[Ghosted]

@86salmon This is a great thread. I have been searching for the right Brake upgrade. But like every upgrade I'm afraid my 17x8 +38 wheel will not fit. Would you know? What are your wheel specs?

 

[pinhead66]

The next part was an error on my part in paying attention to tolerances. Z1 Motorsports 2 piece rotors turned out to be 31mm thick.

That's wild that it's a mm thicker than the stock 350Z track rotor but it doesn't even mention it on the page. You would think that would be important to know. I was looking at these when I was ordering my Wunderladen kit but ultimately decided on common sense since I don't go to the track and wanted to keep costs down.

 

[86salmon]

@86salmon This is a great thread. I have been searching for the right Brake upgrade. But like every upgrade I'm afraid my 17x8 +38 wheel will not fit. Would you know? What are your wheel specs?

It's dependent on your spokes. I have ESR 18x9.5 +35 that need 3mm spacers and Superspeed 18 x9.5 +38 that clear fine. In the RL thread I link in the first post, people have luck with a couple different Konig wheels in 18x8.5 +35. Enkei RPF and NT03 are noted to be difficult to fit with any BBK

 

[86salmon]

That's wild that it's a mm thicker than the stock 350Z track rotor but it doesn't even mention it on the page. You would think that would be important to know. I was looking at these when I was ordering my Wunderladen kit but ultimately decided on common sense since I don't go to the track and wanted to keep costs down.

If and or when I go with the Wunderladen kit, I'm going to make the gamble since I'm already invested in them. The weight savings is phenomenal

 

[pinhead66]

If and or when I go with the Wunderladen kit, I'm going to make the gamble since I'm already invested in them. The weight savings is phenomenal

The Z1 rotors weigh a tad less than stock Si rotors so no added unsprung weight with much larger rotors is a win. Did you ever weigh the RL calipers loaded with pads and hardware? Just curious.

SI OE caliper per corner = 15.24lbs
SI OE rotor per corner = 17.08lbs
350Z track 1-piece rotor = 20-21 lbs
Z1 2-piece rotor = 16.8 lbs
Wunderladen EBC loaded caliper = ~8.2 lbs

 

[86salmon]

The Z1 rotors weigh a tad less than stock Si rotors so no added unsprung weight with much larger rotors is a win. Did you ever weigh the RL calipers loaded with pads and hardware? Just curious.

SI OE caliper per corner = 15.24lbs
SI OE rotor per corner = 17.08lbs
350Z track 1-piece rotor = 20-21 lbs
Z1 2-piece rotor = 16.8 lbs
Wunderladen EBC loaded caliper = ~8.2 lbs

I didn't, but in the RL thread someone had them at 9.4 loaded. That's a bonus for how meaty they are

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/oem-bbk-acura-rl-4-piston-brake-calipers.43055/post-980392

 

[86salmon]

Another thing to note, Goodridge ss brake lines mated right up

Here's a current cost break down

Centric rotors $81 +shipping

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/acura,2009,rl,3.7l+v6,1442859,brake+&+wheel+hub


Brake pads

$40-$$$

Basic parts store brand start at around $40 for basement economy pads. Napa premium were around $80 and Brembo ceramic are $70

Porterfield RS4 sport low dust pads are $90+shipping

https://porterfield-brakes.com/product/ap1091/

Fastbrakes adapter kit is $200+shipping

https://www.twostepperformance.com/products/rsx-with-acura-rl-caliper-adapter-kit

Slickfab is $180+shipping

https://slickfabllc-com.3dcartstores.com/Brakes_c_43.html

Finally, the calipers themselves

Again, this can wildly vary. Member classified section occasionally has sets up for sale with other bits bundled in

eBay has sets ranging from $136 to $200

80+40+200+140= $460 for this setup on the low end

Again, depending on what your local salvage yard has available, you can get this even cheaper

 

[Newyen6MT]

Thanks for letting us know we can get JDM pads from the Honda Legend! I like the M pad I see from Dixcel and may try it out.

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