Do I need to upgrade my intank fuel pump?

[govols187]

I have a 2019 Type R. It's FBO with the RV6 turbo, XDI hpfp, 1400cc injectors. I am about to go to the tuners and was wondering if I should upgrade the LPFP before I go. I'm not currently running E85 and I may or may not in the future. Also if I do I was planning on maybe the walbro 450. I haven't found any real detailed info on how to install it other than slight modifications are needed to make it work. Any advice is appreciated.

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[KensBlueGenX]

The current low pressure fuel pump recall going on aside, the high pressure fuel pump on injector rail is the one that counts. The only purpose the in-tank LP one serves is to move fuel from the tank to the HP pump. So no, there is no point in upgrading that one.

 

[speedyserg]

Yes - the low pressure pump is the only thing feeding your hpfp and injectors

You'll be commanding a massive fuel demand on full boost threshold and smaller lpfps cant keep up as well.

Did you upgrade the high pressure fuel line? That's a major restriction at 400whp and if you have goals above that you'll need that upgraded.

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/...re-fuel-line-service-fk8-civic-and-cv2-accord

The big decision will be ethanol vs not ethanol. The dramatic difference between running an aggressive ethanol tune vs a pump gas tune is probably around 80 to 120whp+ difference.

I don't trust pump gas as there is no way to guarantee octane/quality. Ethanol is cheap insurance as your ethanol gauge will tell you what the ratio is vs trusting the pump octane is the advertised octane.

If you do go ethanol there are some upgrades that you can do to make sure you have smooth sailing. At the minimum an inline fuel filter to prevent junk from the oem fuel filter making its way forward and clogging an injector or worse - not fun, been there. Done that.

So beyond the inline filter you'll also be driving the lpfp pretty hard - in some cases the heat generated can overwhelm and kill the pump. This happens to stock. Aem, dw300c etc....so what's the solution? A bigger pump that works less to sustain the required flow.

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/jsr-fk8-14v-fuel-supply-return-system

That system includes a 535lph pump (hellcat size) and includes larger fuel lines to support massive flow - it deletes the tiny garbage intank fuel pump setup/regulator and includes a high quality fuel pressure regulator as well.

It's the setup I'll be moving to soon, as I need the flow and hate the stock oem fuel filter paper/glue risk. I change my fuel filter about every 6 months to avoid it being an issue on ethanol. Gets old so once you move to this setup you can simply take the filter out and clean it yourself. Super easy.

Ultimately if you want to max that RV6 R660 out you'll need 2000cc injectors or a port injection setup - it flows alot - I'm at 600whp with it and I'm hoping to go 640ish with cams to 8200rpm - the low pressure upgrade becomes very important fuel wise as I'm staying direct injection only.

Cheers

 

[ApexEight]

Yes - the low pressure pump is the only thing feeding your hpfp and injectors

You'll be commanding a massive fuel demand on full boost threshold and smaller lpfps cant keep up as well.

Did you upgrade the high pressure fuel line? That's a major restriction at 400whp and if you have goals above that you'll need that upgraded.

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/...re-fuel-line-service-fk8-civic-and-cv2-accord

The big decision will be ethanol vs not ethanol. The dramatic difference between running an aggressive ethanol tune vs a pump gas tune is probably around 80 to 120whp+ difference.

I don't trust pump gas as there is no way to guarantee octane/quality. Ethanol is cheap insurance as your ethanol gauge will tell you what the ratio is vs trusting the pump octane is the advertised octane.

If you do go ethanol there are some upgrades that you can do to make sure you have smooth sailing. At the minimum an inline fuel filter to prevent junk from the oem fuel filter making its way forward and clogging an injector or worse - not fun, been there. Done that.

So beyond the inline filter you'll also be driving the lpfp pretty hard - in some cases the heat generated can overwhelm and kill the pump. This happens to stock. Aem, dw300c etc....so what's the solution? A bigger pump that works less to sustain the required flow.

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/jsr-fk8-14v-fuel-supply-return-system

That system includes a 535lph pump (hellcat size) and includes larger fuel lines to support massive flow - it deletes the tiny garbage intank fuel pump setup/regulator and includes a high quality fuel pressure regulator as well.

It's the setup I'll be moving to soon, as I need the flow and hate the stock oem fuel filter paper/glue risk. I change my fuel filter about every 6 months to avoid it being an issue on ethanol. Gets old so once you move to this setup you can simply take the filter out and clean it yourself. Super easy.

Ultimately if you want to max that RV6 R660 out you'll need 2000cc injectors or a port injection setup - it flows alot - I'm at 600whp with it and I'm hoping to go 640ish with cams to 8200rpm - the low pressure upgrade becomes very important fuel wise as I'm staying direct injection only.

Cheers

Are there overheating issues with a DW300C if sticking with 93, no ethanol?

 

[govols187]

Yes - the low pressure pump is the only thing feeding your hpfp and injectors

You'll be commanding a massive fuel demand on full boost threshold and smaller lpfps cant keep up as well.

Did you upgrade the high pressure fuel line? That's a major restriction at 400whp and if you have goals above that you'll need that upgraded.

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/...re-fuel-line-service-fk8-civic-and-cv2-accord

The big decision will be ethanol vs not ethanol. The dramatic difference between running an aggressive ethanol tune vs a pump gas tune is probably around 80 to 120whp+ difference.

I don't trust pump gas as there is no way to guarantee octane/quality. Ethanol is cheap insurance as your ethanol gauge will tell you what the ratio is vs trusting the pump octane is the advertised octane.

If you do go ethanol there are some upgrades that you can do to make sure you have smooth sailing. At the minimum an inline fuel filter to prevent junk from the oem fuel filter making its way forward and clogging an injector or worse - not fun, been there. Done that.

So beyond the inline filter you'll also be driving the lpfp pretty hard - in some cases the heat generated can overwhelm and kill the pump. This happens to stock. Aem, dw300c etc....so what's the solution? A bigger pump that works less to sustain the required flow.

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/jsr-fk8-14v-fuel-supply-return-system

That system includes a 535lph pump (hellcat size) and includes larger fuel lines to support massive flow - it deletes the tiny garbage intank fuel pump setup/regulator and includes a high quality fuel pressure regulator as well.

It's the setup I'll be moving to soon, as I need the flow and hate the stock oem fuel filter paper/glue risk. I change my fuel filter about every 6 months to avoid it being an issue on ethanol. Gets old so once you move to this setup you can simply take the filter out and clean it yourself. Super easy.

Ultimately if you want to max that RV6 R660 out you'll need 2000cc injectors or a port injection setup - it flows alot - I'm at 600whp with it and I'm hoping to go 640ish with cams to 8200rpm - the low pressure upgrade becomes very important fuel wise as I'm staying direct injection only.

Cheers

Thanks for the info. My goals for the time being is 500whp or as far as pump gas will get me for now. Ethanol is something i may do in the future. I drilled the line myself but if that's an issue I can get the JSR one. What kind of in line filter are you using? Do you know if the walbro 450 would work for the LPFP?

 

[speedyserg]

Thanks for the info. My goals for the time being is 500whp or as far as pump gas will get me for now. Ethanol is something i may do in the future. I drilled the line myself but if that's an issue I can get the JSR one. What kind of in line filter are you using? Do you know if the walbro 450 would work for the LPFP?

All the JSR stuff is tested and proven to 715whp on stock bottom end. The hp line is in its 3rd revision and you can buy a spare already done from them or send in one to get the work done. On stock fuel system it allowed me to go over 400whp without any pressure spikes/weird fueling issues.

If you just want the inline fuel filter Jake offers that now as a standalone upgrade

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/jsr-fk8-auxilary-e85-fuel-filter-assembly

He made sure it worked on his car before releasing it - it's something I think is very important for ethanol guys - at the very minimum to avoid my issue of a clogged open injector and spitting raw fuel out the tail pipe doesn't take much to clog a DI injector unfortunately

 

[govols187]

All the JSR stuff is tested and proven to 715whp on stock bottom end. The hp line is in its 3rd revision and you can buy a spare already done from them or send in one to get the work done. On stock fuel system it allowed me to go over 400whp without any pressure spikes/weird fueling issues.

If you just want the inline fuel filter Jake offers that now as a standalone upgrade

https://www.jsrengines.com/product/jsr-fk8-auxilary-e85-fuel-filter-assembly

He made sure it worked on his car before releasing it - it's something I think is very important for ethanol guys - at the very minimum to avoid my issue of a clogged open injector and spitting raw fuel out the tail pipe doesn't take much to clog a DI injector unfortunately

Do you know anything about running the walbro 450 LPFP? If I go the ethanol route I'll look into the pump from jsr. But I need to do other things first. Mainly find another daily. Do you daily your Type R?

 

[speedyserg]

Do you know anything about running the walbro 450 LPFP? If I go the ethanol route I'll look into the pump from jsr. But I need to do other things first. Mainly find another daily. Do you daily your Type R?

1000+ miles a month on e50
You can ask Jake about the walbro - most guys run the dw300c and then upgrade to the hellcat setup to eliminate the headache of the oem fuel filter/tiny pumps.

I need to change my filter again so I'll probably stop by and get that done soon. Oil change and maybe new plugs while I'm at it rain is coming so might throw some new tires on as well - the money pit never ends but she sure is fun.

 

[govols187]

1000+ miles a month on e50
You can ask Jake about the walbro - most guys run the dw300c and then upgrade to the hellcat setup to eliminate the headache of the oem fuel filter/tiny pumps.

I need to change my filter again so I'll probably stop by and get that done soon. Oil change and maybe new plugs while I'm at it rain is coming so might throw some new tires on as well - the money pit never ends but she sure is fun.

Nice. Good to know even at 2x the stock hp it can be driven pretty regularly. I ended up ordering and installing today the JSR Engine HPFL and a DW300C pump. I bought the XDI fuel pump, 1400cc injectors, and the RV6 on a Black Friday deal. Installed the turbo first. Then the injectors, and pump. The pump ended up being a dud but I just received the warranty replacement so I put that on as well. Have to say they have pretty good customer service. Built me a new one and sent it back. It was a 3 week turnaround. I'll be calling my tuner on Monday to see when I can get it tuned. What's your wheel and tire set up? I'm on 18x9.5 APEX Forged VS-5RS with TOYO Proxes R1Rs. They're not that good.

 

[speedyserg]

Nice. Good to know even at 2x the stock hp it can be driven pretty regularly. I ended up ordering and installing today the JSR Engine HPFL and a DW300C pump. I bought the XDI fuel pump, 1400cc injectors, and the RV6 on a Black Friday deal. Installed the turbo first. Then the injectors, and pump. The pump ended up being a dud but I just received the warranty replacement so I put that on as well. Have to say they have pretty good customer service. Built me a new one and sent it back. It was a 3 week turnaround. I'll be calling my tuner on Monday to see when I can get it tuned. What's your wheel and tire set up? I'm on 18x9.5 APEX Forged VS-5RS with TOYO Proxes R1Rs. They're not that good.

1400s are ok - they just run out around 560whp or so as you Rev the motor past 7200
Once I switched to the 2000s I was able to carry power to redline - I still have some room left at 600 and with the upgraded low pressure side should be good for 750ish on these injectors. The 1400s have a better spray pattern but just can't keep up.....some guys keep the 1400s and go port injection but I wanted to keep it DI only - simple and safer.

Monsoon this week here in SoCal been interesting on summer tires

 

[govols187]

1400s are ok - they just run out around 560whp or so as you Rev the motor past 7200
Once I switched to the 2000s I was able to carry power to redline - I still have some room left at 600 and with the upgraded low pressure side should be good for 750ish on these injectors. The 1400s have a better spray pattern but just can't keep up.....some guys keep the 1400s and go port injection but I wanted to keep it DI only - simple and safer.

Monsoon this week here in SoCal been interesting on summer tires

Well my tuner is not gonna be able to get to it for a while. But they will rent the dyno to me for a remote tune. Any suggestions?

 

[speedyserg]

Well my tuner is not gonna be able to get to it for a while. But they will rent the dyno to me for a remote tune. Any suggestions?

I remote tuned with FK8td multiple times- the dyno helps dial things in quickly vs waiting weeks for email tunes.

Now I same day tune with JSR as they have an in-house dyno and do all my installs

I'm sure all the remote tuners can tune you if you have say 4 ot 5 hours set up - the flashes take forever and slow the process down. I wish we could make changes real time and then flash the final tune - cant do that yet so stuck waiting for flashes over and over. My dynos took alot of time but were safe - never had to worry about detonation.

You can call Jake at JSR to see if he will remote tune - solid option if they will do it. They have the traction control dialed well which is nice for me daily driving. Car pulls smooth wven with 490wtq hitting

 

[govols187]

I remote tuned with FK8td multiple times- the dyno helps dial things in quickly vs waiting weeks for email tunes.

Now I same day tune with JSR as they have an in-house dyno and do all my installs

I'm sure all the remote tuners can tune you if you have say 4 ot 5 hours set up - the flashes take forever and slow the process down. I wish we could make changes real time and then flash the final tune - cant do that yet so stuck waiting for flashes over and over. My dynos took alot of time but were safe - never had to worry about detonation.

You can call Jake at JSR to see if he will remote tune - solid option if they will do it. They have the traction control dialed well which is nice for me daily driving. Car pulls smooth wven with 490wtq hitting

I got ahold of JSR and they suggested to go ethanol now so I did. They just gave me a base tune and it pulls HARD. I'll need new tires for sure to put it down. But thanks again for all the tips and advice.

 

[speedyserg]

I got ahold of JSR and they suggested to go ethanol now so I did. They just gave me a base tune and it pulls HARD. I'll need new tires for sure to put it down. But thanks again for all the tips and advice.

For sure- I trust Jake and his son 100% - they live and breathe FK8s and test on their personal FK8 before releasing anything.

Their work has always been top notch and I'm lucky they are in SoCal. 20+ years in the Honda game and stands behind his work.

Ethanol = torque monster

 

[BrokeCTROwner]

I’ve been running a xdi pump, 1400cc injectors, drilled fuel line, and stock lpfp for over a year now on e30-e40 and the pump hasn’t shit the bed. So from my experience no it’s not required but that being said I’d still recommend you upgrade it

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